Mark Clattenburg and General Rant About Diving

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Mark Clattenburg and General Rant About Diving

Post  bluenoseghag on Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:05 am

Joke of a display today. At 2-2 it looked like being one of the matches of the season, and while Ivanovic's red card was probably justified (though unsurprisingly Ashley Young had no intention of staying on his feet and waited for any justifyable contact before going down), the Torres one was ridiculous and killed the game.

In order to book a player for diving the referee must be 100% sure that the player has dived. When Torres is running at that speed, put the ball through evans' legs and goes down, when Evans himself has thrown himself at the player AND Clattenburg is a good 10-20m away from the incident, how on earth can he be sure.

Utterly ridiculous, pressure from the media is making referees try and clamp down on diving, but they shouldn't be the ones to judge, or there will be many more games wrecked and points lost down to a referee wrongly accusing a player of cheating.

The yellow card for diving should be scrapped. A foul yes, but any incident should be dealt with by an independent panel after the game. Retrospective action is the way forward, 1 game bans rising to 3 based on the severity and importance of the incident should be introduced, which would be a massive deterrant on players falling to the floor. Would Ashley Young throw himself down in the first few minutes of a game if he knew he'd be facing a 3-game ban?

All the current system does it deter the bad divers, those who don't have the skill to con the ref while massively rewarding the good ones. The pressure needs to be taken from the referee and the decisions given to people who have the necessary replays and technology to make the correct call.

Rant Over
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Re: Mark Clattenburg and General Rant About Diving

Post  bluenose abroad on Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:45 pm

Torres may have been clipped by Evans, but he took another step before going down. As Ferdinand looked as though he was covering and may have got to the ball before Torres, I can understand why the ref thought it was a dive.
It may have been, it may not.

Retrospective action in this case would be useless, you really can't tell if it was a dive or not.

Personally I'd like to see straight reds for diving and shirt pulling, that would get rid of it.

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Re: Mark Clattenburg and General Rant About Diving

Post  hootie63 on Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:33 pm

bluenose abroad wrote:Torres may have been clipped by Evans, but he took another step before going down. As Ferdinand looked as though he was covering and may have got to the ball before Torres, I can understand why the ref thought it was a dive.
It may have been, it may not.

Retrospective action in this case would be useless, you really can't tell if it was a dive or not.

Personally I'd like to see straight reds for diving and shirt pulling, that would get rid of it.


Totally agree with you BNA something as got to be done about all the diving and if it takes a few probables to sort it out then so be it the players have only created the situation themselves
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Re: Mark Clattenburg and General Rant About Diving

Post  hootie63 on Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:54 am

What a Joke this has turned out to be Chelski come unstuck and blame the one person they cant buy then, so they try to say he was being racist or made inappropriate comments to ruin his career and life what an absolute disgrace Chelski and their owner is.

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Re: Mark Clattenburg and General Rant About Diving

Post  bluenosebryan on Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:22 am

In the sun today it said he made some words to mikel and called mata a spanish twat,well sorry but refs take shit all game of the players so even if clattenburg did say this then why dont the players just take it tongue in cheek,i am totally fed up now of foreign players crying rasist at every oppotunity there are getting as bad as the muslims
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Re: Mark Clattenburg and General Rant About Diving

Post  bluenose abroad on Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:28 pm

Chelsea complaining about racist language being used.
A bit ironic really.

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Re: Mark Clattenburg and General Rant About Diving

Post  lowdham bluenose on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:30 pm

hootie63 wrote:What a Joke this has turned out to be Chelski come unstuck and blame the one person they cant buy then, so they try to say he was being racist or made inappropriate comments to ruin his career and life what an absolute disgrace Chelski and their owner is.

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spot on hootie

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Re: Mark Clattenburg and General Rant About Diving

Post  Rob on Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:30 pm

There hasn't been much talk of this recently, but I doubt very much that he would have been stupid enough to make this sort of remark knowing that the other 3 officials can here him.

I know he has been in trouble in the past for similar comments, but if anything, that makes me think it even less likely.

If (when) he is found to have nothing to answer for, the Chelski player(s) making the allegations should be banned for a long time.

I abhor racists, but I honestly think that there are an awful lot of racists in this country who are not white - a few of them footballers.

They are making a bad situation an awful lot worse!

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Re: Mark Clattenburg and General Rant About Diving

Post  hootie63 on Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:37 am

Surprise Surprise the FA have said No case to answer against him, So are Chelsea going to pay him for loss of wages


THURSDAY, 22 NOVEMBER 2012
Mark Clattenburg

The FA have released a statement in relation to the recent Chelsea v Man Utd game
The FA has concluded its investigation into alleged misconduct by Mark Clattenburg during the match between Chelsea FC and Manchester United FC on Sunday 28 October 2012. No disciplinary action will follow against Mr Clattenburg.

The investigation chronology

Following the conclusion of the match, Chelsea FC reported to the match delegate that two of their players had been separately subject to abuse by the match referee, Mark Clattenburg.

On Monday 29 October 2012, The FA contacted Chelsea FC to establish whether the club and individual players wished to make a formal complaint in relation to the allegations reported to the match delegate.

On Wednesday 31 October Chelsea FC contacted The FA and confirmed that the club had conducted an internal enquiry and that they did wish to proceed with a formal complaint in relation to one of the allegations of abuse. The club did not wish to proceed in relation to the other allegation. The club provided witness statements from two players, Ramires Santos do Nascimento (“Ramires”) and John Obi Mikel.

The details of the allegation were that following one or the other of the red cards issued during the second half of the game, Ramires heard Mark Clattenburg say to John Obi Mikel, “shut up you monkey”. John Obi Mikel did not hear the alleged comment.

On 1 November 2012, The FA requested that Chelsea disclose full details of their internal investigation.

On 5 November 2012, Chelsea FC provided The FA with witness statements from other Chelsea FC players and officials.

On 5 November 2012, The FA interviewed Ramires and John Obi Mikel, using the TV match footage obtained by The FA.

Between 7 and 8 November 2012, The FA interviewed all four match officials.

On 9 and 14 November 2012, further to FA requests, Chelsea FC provided unbroadcast video footage of the game from static cameras.

On 15 November 2012, The FA re-interviewed Ramires to show him the previously unseen video footage provided by the club. At this stage, for the first time, the exact point at which the comment was alleged to have been made was established.

In light of this new information, between 15 and 19 November 2012, The FA interviewed the players who were in the vicinity of the alleged incident, and re-interviewed John Obi Mikel and the match officials.

Chelsea FC was offered the opportunity to provide any further information or evidence that they believed could be relevant to the allegation.

The FA then sought advice on the evidence gathered from independent Queen’s Counsel.

The essential facts found

The evidence for the allegation came from one witness, Ramires. Ramires, whose first language is not English, explained that his instinctive reaction was to seek confirmation from John Obi Mikel as to what the referee had said.

John Obi Mikel, who was being spoken to by the referee, was much closer to the referee than Ramires and did not hear what it is suggested was said to him.

Three other witnesses, i.e. the other Match Officials, to whom everything said by referee was relayed via their communication equipment, are adamant the alleged words were not uttered.

There is nothing in the video footage to support the allegation.

For completeness, but of lesser weight, two other players, whose first language is English and were in the vicinity, did not hear anything untoward.

The decision

Having considered all of the available evidence it was the opinion of David Waters QC, independent counsel, that the evidence of Ramires was not supported by any other evidence. Moreover it was contradicted by other witnesses and does not cross the evidential threshold required to bring a charge against Mark Clattenburg.

Having considered Counsel’s opinion, and in view of all the circumstances of the case, The FA does not believe that there is a case for Mr Clattenburg to answer.

Equally The FA is satisfied that the allegation against Mark Clattenburg by Ramires was made in good faith. It is entirely possible for a witness to be genuinely mistaken and convincing in his belief.

The FA receives and investigates numerous allegations of misconduct over the course of a season. All allegations are properly investigated. It is not uncommon for investigations to lead to no disciplinary charge being brought.

The FA encourages all players who believe they have been either subject, or witness to, discriminatory abuse to report the matter immediately to the match officials on the day. Furthermore, all Participants are advised to report any such alleged misconduct to The FA. In this case, the player and club were correct in reporting the matter to The FA and it was appropriate and proper for such an allegation to be thoroughly investigated.
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